Everyday Wonder Women

Episode 3: My mom’s friend Judy on teen pregnancy, corporate success, and finding her way

• Stacee Santi Longfellow • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Judy shares her remarkable journey from being a pregnant teenager in the 1960s to climbing the corporate ladder to Senior VP with no college education.

• Working up from bank teller to Senior VP at a mortgage company without formal education
• Learning the mortgage industry from the ground up with practical experience
• Facing workplace discrimination in the 1960s banking industry's "good old boys club"
• Getting pregnant at 17 and experiencing social shame and educational restrictions
• Marriage in Juarez, Mexico and telling her parents afterward
• Being forbidden from participating in extracurricular activities or socializing at school
• The importance of women supporting other women through difficult times
• Unexpected achievements including induction into the Softball Hall of Fame

If you enjoyed meeting Judy and want to see old photos of her playing softball, head to Instagram @Stacee_Santi_Longfellow. Don't forget to leave a comment on social media or give a review wherever you listen to podcasts.


Me (Stacee):

Welcome to the podcast Everyday Wonder Women. I'm your host, Stacee Santi Longfellow, a veterinarian, an entrepreneur and the author of the book "Stop Acting Like a Girl. In each episode you'll meet an amazing woman that you might not know yet, but by the end, trust me, you'll be so glad you did. These are stories of grit, courage and resilience Women who've faced tough challenges and come out stronger on the other side. I'm so glad you're here. Stick around and let's get into the interview.

Me (Stacee):

We're going to meet my mom's friend, Judy. They've been friends since junior high school and recently Judy and her husband Leon were in town visiting my parents and my mom said you know you should talk to Judy. She has a pretty amazing story of resilience and you know I've known Judy forever but I didn't really know her story, which I think is so common these days. You don't really know what someone else has gone through story, which I think is so common these days. You don't really know what someone else has gone through. In this episode, Judy's going to talk about how she climbed the ladder to senior VP with no college education and she's going to talk about her experience being a pregnant teenager in the 60s. It's a great story and I hope you enjoy it. Come meet my mom's friend, judy, and I hope you enjoy it. Come meet my mom's friend, Judy. I mean, I've known you since birth I guess Before birth, I mean right after birth. So tell us a little bit about yourself, judy.

Judy:

Okay, yes, your mom and I have been very close friends forever since we were in high school together. We didn't go to the same junior highs they called it junior high, not middle school, but anyway, we became really good friends when we merged into high school. So we've been good friends since we were 15. In Clovis, in Clovis, New Mexico. So, yes, I was born and raised in Clovis, new Mexico.

Judy:

An only child, had wonderful grandparents, pretty good upbringing, other than the fact that and I love him to this day my dad was an alcoholic, so that kind of put a strain on some of our family life. But anyway, yeah, grew up there, got married when I was barely 17, stayed at home for a little bit and worked. And worked at the bank as a bank teller until we moved to Albuquerque in 1985. And I went to work for a mortgage company then a residential mortgage company and just happened onto a job in Santa Fe that was a mortgage lending company, except it was the end means of where people sold loans other institutions and I was able to work my way up to senior VP, which one of my friends has said. That's something that someone with just a high school education could become a senior VP at a company, so I guess that was a really good accomplishment. Something really that I thought oh wow, I didn't think of it that way.

Me (Stacee):

But yes, so you didn't go to college and learn any of this. You didn't even take like a class.

Judy:

The bank had a mortgage lending department there and they had an opening and so I applied for it and got the job. I was an assistant so I learned how to do everything from the bottom up how to take an application process, the loan, submit it for an underwriter to approve, you know, close it and of course, back then you didn't have computers, so you used a typewriter and carbon paper and you typed your notes and your mortgages and your loan applications and on your notes and mortgages, your legal documents. If you made a mistake you had to start over because you couldn't have any white out. Back then You'd white it out or typo Not on a loan or mortgage.

Judy:

So I learned from the very beginning. So in some ways I think I had a better education of that particular industry by going up the ladder that way than by just coming out of college and walking in because I had a college degree. Because at our company, you know, a lot of people were hired because they had a college degree but they had no background at all in residential lending. It was harder for them.

Judy:

It might have been yeah, because you know I knew through working all those years the ins and outs of the industry and what also. Yeah, but it was fun. I got to travel a lot while I worked at. It was called Thornburg Mortgage and we got to travel a lot because we had companies that we worked with, mortgage companies, that they were called our correspondents and so we'd go visit them. So you know places I hadn't been before. At 50-something I hadn't been to New York City or Chicago or different big cities, so I was getting to travel you went all over.

Judy:

And we were kind of a niche company travel and we were kind of a niche company so we made loans, adjustable rate mortgages, arms in what we call the jumbo market. So it wasn't a conforming loan, it was like the big million dollar homes and stuff back then. So when we got to go we would got to wine and dine like we were five star, so you get to stay in the swanky hotels and take them out to the swanky places to eat. So it was hard work because we were just building that department. But it was. It was it was fun and it was rewarding.

Me (Stacee):

What do you think your superpowers were at work that allowed you to climb Like? What did they see in you and what could you bring that you got getting promoted to all the way to senior VP?

Judy:

I think at first it was the experience I had from just working, you know, in the industry and knowing things, and then I didn't mind taking on a challenge, so that helped. I mean, I was not technologically inclined but I did put together at our company, while we were there, the, the system in which you delivered a paperless file for review, so that was challenging.

Me (Stacee):

That sounds pretty technology advanced?

Judy:

It is but not, you're not, but yeah, it was I mean I, you know I had some help from people, but yeah, we wanted to, you know, quit having paper come in, so much stacks of loans, documents coming in. So we put together a process to where you know our correspondents would submit them electronically and then we would review them electronically before we purchased the loan.

Me (Stacee):

What was one of your more challenging times in your career as a woman? Did you have any challenging times as a woman?

Judy:

Yes, yes, when I was at the bank, it was a man's world. Back then it was in the, you know, late 60s, early 70s. You know, women did get promoted, but they didn't get promoted like men did and the disparity in pay was very evident. I might be doing the same job as a man was doing, but I didn't get paid anywhere near what he got paid. Oh my gosh, because that's just something you didn't do.

Judy:

Something you didn't do. You know it's called the good old boys club and that's what it was, but I never got a promotion. After I went to the mortgage lending department and it broke my heart. I went to the mortgage lending department and it broke my heart, and so that was a hard time then, because I didn't want to really leave the bank but I knew I wasn't going to be able to stay. So what'd you do? I was fortunate enough that when I was a teller, I worked on one of the companies that banked with us. He ran and owned the Pepsi plant in Clovis, and so he approached me to come to work at First Federal Savings and Loan because he was the chairman of the board. So I went over there. So you changed jobs.

Me (Stacee):

Yeah, I left the bank Because you couldn't get a promotion You'd reached for whatever it was yes and so-. You're like I got places to go so I'm getting out of here. I'm getting out.

Judy:

But yeah, and I did like my mother had always said in a small town like clovis, and probably it's a good thing everywhere do not burn bridges. Yeah, you don't know when you might be back around there again and that's true.

Me (Stacee):

You never you meet people that they might not have anything to be helpful for your career now, but later on they might, because they might switch jobs or you just never know.

Judy:

You don't, you don't, and like you know, you might have to go back to work there sometimes. So you might need that job, so you don't want to leave with you know on harsh terms.

Me (Stacee):

Unless you have to, unless you never.

Judy:

Yeah, you don't want to be that one that just grabs your your computer bag or your purse and stomps out the door.

Me (Stacee):

Tell them, give them all the bird on the way out.

Judy:

Yeah, get them to you. But no, so, yeah, so I was able to then as well, at the First Federal Savings and Loan, you know, advance more in the mortgage lending. So when we moved to Albuquerque in 85, then I did go to work for just a mortgage company and from there then that's when I a headhunter called me about the job at in Santa Fe with Thornburg Mortgage. So so I can say, you know, it built. It built from when I was in my, you know, mid to late twentiess as a teller at the bank all the way up to where I really feel like my career it was all going towards the career at Thornburg. Yeah, because I started out as just the manager of the department and then, you know, assistant vice president, and then vice president and senior vice president, and then vice president and senior vice president.

Me (Stacee):

Let me phrase that again what advice would you give a woman that maybe has it on her radar to be senior VP but doesn't have the formal training?

Judy:

I think I would say you know research, whatever kind of classes or whatever kind of junior college or trade school that you can go to, where you don't have the expense of student loans or you know major expenses like that, and train specifically for something in the industry that you really like, that there's a possibility that once you get there, you can grow and further your career with that company. I think the key would be research first to see what you really want to do. It seems like so many of this generation. They seem to get a degree or they finish something and then they get out in the real world and it isn't what they really wanted to do and so they're doing something that's not even in their field and they've got all this debt.

Me (Stacee):

What's some things a woman could do with working on a team and with a boss, and you're trying to move forward. You know what I mean. Like raise your hand more. What can you do to push?

Judy:

forward. Take on the special projects, work with a team that's doing them. You'll learn from that as well. Plus, you will also get the experience you need. So I think you, you know you should always be willing to accept that challenge, even if you don't know. But you'll be put in a team with people that do have the knowledge and experience, and you can gather that from them yeah, you can be a sponge, mm-hmm right, you can be a sponge.

Judy:

And then, just whenever there's a opportunity you know, don't hold back. Don't think that oh gee, I don't have the experience, I don't know always if that's warranted sometimes that maybe your worth ethic, you know your skills and your performance make it to where management knows you're able and willing to take on a new position, that you don't have all the background or knowledge based in.

Me (Stacee):

This is a fun fact that there was a study done not too long ago and there was a job ad put out and it said you must have these requirements. They were must have like X amount of years of this training, this kind of degree, etc. And we can hear my mom's the alarm we're at my mom's house and we can hear her little clock going off. And then so in the study they found that men, if they had 80 percent or so of the criteria met, they would apply for the job. Uh, but if women had like 95% of the criteria, they would not apply because they didn't have 100%.

Judy:

But I can understand that. I think women have always instilled to some degree this they have to take the backseat to a man, even though they may be better qualified or have more knowledge. Like this, they don't feel that they can put themselves out there if they don't have so much more.

Me (Stacee):

Right, you just feel like you have to have a surplus to even compete, yeah, to even compete. Yeah, so what's been a time in your life where you were faced with a particularly hard challenge?

Judy:

Oh, that would be years ago. I know that we've all had challenges. We've all in some degree or other had something health-related and loved ones or relatives passing away. That's hard to deal with. But just starting out, I got pregnant when I was 17. That was back in 1964. So that was still in an era where, you know it, it was frowned upon if a girl was pregnant and not married ahead of time the girl got the girl the girl got the brunt of it.

Judy:

It was a good old, good old boy, all right, but then the girl was like shamed, you know, like you're not worth much because of this. And you experienced that I experienced it. Yeah, I got pregnant when I was 17. The guy who got me pregnant, we had been together for a while and we got married. I don't think it was ever any question that we wouldn't, because I know back then a lot of girls, young girls, would go away for a period of time and, you know, come back and still be the same girl.

Judy:

They just ship them off for the summer, ship them off for the summer or for, however much it was, they were gone to visit the aunt or the uncle, or they were gone to help a relative do something, or going to a different school oh I see. And then they would come back. And of course you, you know, I think that's trauma for for girls that didn't get married as well, because you, you had to make a decision that someone in the family maybe someone definitely didn't live close by was going to raise the child as theirs, or you gave the baby up for adoption, and so I think that's hard for women to live with. How'd you make the choice? It wasn't even a choice. You know, I just told Leon, my husband, I just said I think I'm pregnant, and he said, okay, then let's get married. So that was just it. We didn't tell either. Parent Juarez was like 400 miles from Clovis.

Judy:

Juarez, mexico, yeah, and so we drove there and drove right back. We drove there, parked, walked across the border and they would marry you and they would marry us. Yeah, the taxi cab driver, leon, flagged one down and he took us to the Jester the Peace. He read the vows in Spanish he did.

Judy:

Yes, yeah, were you just thinking? My god, I was, I was scared to death. I was so scared and the cab driver was saying uh, he told us when to say I do. The cab driver, yes, he stood up with us and said okay, you say I. So I just knew I was scared because it was the first time I'd ever been to a border town in Mexico and there were bars and brothels all over the place.

Me (Stacee):

It was scary, it was an experience and you couldn't get married in Clovis, or you wanted to get it done before you told anyone it just seemed like that other people that we'd heard about or knew that had run off to Juarez to get married.

Judy:

I see.

Me (Stacee):

So do you still have your marriage certificate? Yes, from Juarez.

Judy:

Yes, and it's in Spanish. Yes, but it was. You know it was hard, because then we came back and I had to tell my mom I was an only child, so a lot of her world was wrapped around me and, being a junior in high school, you know they were already making plans for, you know, saving for me to go to college and do the things that you know you do with your young life.

Me (Stacee):

And was that sort of assumed that was just off the table now, well, it was back then.

Judy:

I remember coming back home and I was scared coming back, and one of my friends, and one of your mom's friends I was supposed to have been spending the night with her, sherry, and so when I pulled up at her house she came running out and said you need to get to church right now. It was Sunday morning by then and she said you've got to get through your mom's call a couple of times and she's expecting you at church from Juarez straight to church, straight to church so Leon to church.

Judy:

So Leon had told me he said Well, let's just don't tell anybody for a while. You just go on home and you know, when you feel comfortable you can tell them. Of course he was scared as well to have to tell them, but I got to thinking no, let's just go tell her. And so she was leaving church. Then Church was over and I got out of the car and approached her. At that point in her mind she thought that, since she saw Leon, that we were just wanting to go somewhere and do something on a Sunday. And I told her that. I said, mom, she said, what do you need? And I said Leon and I just got married. And she just looked at me and I could tell it hurt. And she said just go home and tell your dad. And she got in her car and went home. So we followed her and I told my dad he was stern but very understanding with Leon, to the point you know, you're part of our family now, but don't hurt my daughter ever.

Judy:

At that time you know it was no more like we did back then. It was no more dragging Maine, no more running around with my friends, it just came to an abrupt halt. It just came to really a halt. You know, I'd see them occasionally, but not. And school started. So our senior year started and they had all gone to school and, of course, the school board. You had to get special permission to go to school if you were married, but you could not go if you were pregnant. Period Just not, just not. That was just not even an option.

Judy:

And Tracy was born in December and my mother went to the school board because that's the one thing she did say and I promised her I would. She said please finish high school, please finish your education through high school. And I had had Tracy by then. So she went with me to register for the last semester and I was fortunate enough that I had enough credits that I only needed to go half a day and I took English, took it from Texas Tech as a correspondence course to where I had that full year English where I'd have enough credits to graduate. So but before, when my mom and I went to see the principal, mr Beasley, he was very stern and I felt less. I felt lesser of a human being because I was having to sit there and be judged. And then he specifically said you no longer socialize now You're married, you have a child and you? You go to your classes and that's it. There's no clubs, no extracurricular, anything that you're to join.

Me (Stacee):

That's it so I can't believe that must have been so isolating it was it was very isolating shaming, very shaming, yes, and, like I said, it made me I felt less yeah and instead of saying you know you had a hard path here, but we're gonna help.

Judy:

Yeah, but we're here to help you, so you say that, no that.

Judy:

No, no, didn't say that, it was more shaming. And these are the rules. If you break them you'll be suspended, you won't be able to finish and get your diploma. So you know, I followed the rules and you know, at times, you know I knew that the girls were all doing this or they were having that and the pep rallies and everything going on, and of course you were just no longer part of that world and but I did graduate and did get my diploma and we moved on, had a beautiful baby girl, tracy, and uh, she was amazing, thank you.

Judy:

After being married, you know, a few years everybody was out of school and going doing different things. It it all ironed out, you know, and it was. But in that moment in time and in that era back in the 60s, it was something. That's hard, I think it. You know, leon had just graduated the year before, so he was out of school. It wasn't anything for him to be in trouble over or people to look down at him, but it definitely was. You start showing in there and they know you're young and pregnant.

Me (Stacee):

Of course the first thing goes through their minds minds oh my, she's not a nice girl because she had to get married yeah, listening to your story it makes me think about how important it is to support all people, but especially young women, if they're in a tough jam or they're making a choice that maybe you don't agree with. It's their life and they're a person with feelings and, especially when they're young, you're being shaped, still with your confidence and your self-esteem, and a lot of young women.

Judy:

you know they're having to make this decision alone.

Me (Stacee):

Yeah they are, and they're just doing the best they can.

Judy:

Yeah, and I mean my parents and leon's parents weren't brought into the knowledge of everything till after we were married, but they supported us. I mean, yes, it hurt my mother a lot, but yet they were supported, they didn't yeah, yeah, what do you need?

Judy:

what can we help with? And they were there with us all the way through it. I mean, my mom went to the hospital with us and she was with me. I, the dads, couldn't go in and she really wasn't supposed to, but they let her come in because not when I had her right up until.

Judy:

I went to delivery room when I was in the labor room and it just was like you know, thank goodness my mom was there, or so than Leon, because he was still a kid too. We both were kids, and she was just there as my support, as my rock, and today a lot of young women don't seem to have that kind of support, so I think it's harder for them to make a decision.

Me (Stacee):

Well, I feel like if there is a young woman in a jam, like finding themselves pregnant when they didn't mean to get pregnant right now, like just do know, you're not the first woman to do this and there's actually probably a lot of women in your circle that would relate more than you might think probably you're right, and they just would need to, to to confide in those and not be embarrassed if they can.

Me (Stacee):

You know, like, forget being embarrassed. I found out when I got divorced and I was so embarrassed and ashamed of myself and felt so bad. I didn't want any of my clients at the vet hospital to know it at all. Oh no, I finally just needed so much help. I was just in a bad space, so I just owned it and said yeah, look, this is how it is for me. So many other women came to me, clients even, and said I've been there and you're going to be all right.

Judy:

That's wonderful, yeah, and that's what women supporting women that is so important.

Me (Stacee):

So important. So there is a fun fact I want to hear about. My mom told me about you that you have some particularly good skills at softball. What?

Judy:

is this? Oh, that is so funny, it's funny. And in the 60s again, girls didn't play sports. You know, they didn't run track, they didn't play softball, they didn't play volleyball, they didn't play soccer, you know, it was just. There was no sports. I mean, there were extracurricular activities Like home ec, yeah, like home ec. And you know what is it? The annual, the yearbook committee or club, what is it?

Me (Stacee):

the annual, the?

Judy:

yearbook, committee or club, but nothing that was so athletic. So I got on this team and your mom and I are both the same type but the A personality that if we're doing it it's got to be done, just perfect. And I first didn't like it, but then I got to where I did and it was slow-pitch softball. So it's not as, like you see, college and high school girls now with pitchers fast pitching because I pitched and so it was slow pitch.

Judy:

I really wanted to be good at softball and so you could pitch it as high as you wanted in the air and curve it, and I got to where I could do that and put a spin on it through practice and practice and land right behind the plate either side. So even though it was slow pitch, it was kind of harder to hit. So for a few years I would at the end of the year be picked to be on like an all-star team Guy who was running the league then. That was his name Guy Leader. He had put me into the commissioner for softball in New Mexico to induct me into the Softball Hall of Fame. So that's in Oklahoma City and I have a little plaque with my name on it.

Me (Stacee):

You do, yes, that's awesome.

Judy:

So I am in the Softball Hall of Fame.

Me (Stacee):

Wow, I love that. Well, thank you so much for sitting down with me. You're welcome. I appreciate it.

Judy:

You're such a beautiful girl. Your mom had the precious babies I tell you, oh, thank you. And she was an excellent mom and you were an excellent child I was. Now this is kind of a funny story and I'll end it real quick because probably your listeners don't know.

Judy:

But Stacy was very outgoing, very pretty, and a lot of the boys always wanted to ask her out, wanted to date her, but which I will just say I didn't know that well, but they did. But they were scared of stacy's dad I didn't know this and they were scared to ask her out because they knew that they, that your dad, terry, was going to make it rough on them when they came to pick you up. So it was daniel, would always say, because he had a couple of friends like ty and then robert asking you out, and he said I, I can't, I can't do that, I can't put myself to pick you up. So it was David, would always say, because he had a couple of friends like Ty and then Robert asking you out, and he said I can't do that, I can't put myself through that. I want to ask Stacey out but I can't do that.

Me (Stacee):

Oh, that might explain why I didn't get asked out for very long. I think that's exactly why?

Judy:

because there was a rumor going around about dad and the guys were afraid. That's good to know, all right.

Me (Stacee):

Well, thanks, Judy. I really loved what Judy had to say today in her story. Both of her stories from climbing the corporate ladder with no college education to being faced with being pregnant when you're 17 years old Both of these choices in her life required her to dig in deep inside of herself and muster all the grit she could possibly find, and it worked out great. Like both of these things turned out to be huge, key advantages for her. She was able to become a very successful senior VP and she has an amazing daughter, tracy, who I know and trust me, she's fantastic. So I think it really boils down to when you think something isn't going the way you want it to go in your life, instead of beating yourself up, instead of being embarrassed, instead of feeling ashamed, think about how to turn this into an advantage for yourself, because most of the tough stuff you go through in life turns into something amazing.

Me (Stacee):

I also want to share something from the book "Stop Acting Like a Girl. In the chapter called Be Decisive on page 15, included a part from Dr Ellen Ranger, who's a professor of psychology at Harvard, and she talks about making the right decision versus making the decision right for you, and basically what it's saying is when things don't go your way, figure it out and turn that wrong decision into a right one. We've all been there and if you haven't been there yet, you're going to be there someday. And just remember you have everything inside of you right now to get your ship back on course and live the life you want to live.

Me (Stacee):

I really hope you enjoyed meeting Judy today and if you have any comments or questions for Judy, or if you want to see some old pictures, I'm going to try to get the picture of her playing softball and see if I can post that. Head over to Instagram and you can find everything at Stacee, underscore Santi, underscore Longfellow. Don't forget it's S-T-A-C--E-E. Thanks for joining you guys, and I really appreciate being here. Let me know if you like these stories too. It means a lot if you can give a comment on our social media or even give a review wherever you're listening to podcasts, and we'll see you again soon.